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McElroy Fusion Discussion
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 Post subject: Web Page Updates
PostPosted: August 16th, 2006, 3:12 pm 
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Joined: August 16th, 2006, 2:05 pm
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Any plans to update the website. Looks pretty good, but could use some new content.


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2006, 3:13 pm 
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Joined: August 16th, 2006, 2:47 pm
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Yes, a new design is in the works, and should be up in a few weeks. Thanks for stopping by!
Brandon


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2006, 3:13 pm 
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It would be helpful if you would suggest specific content you would like to see. Are there any questions you have that we have not addressed somewhere on the site? These could be added to our FAQ's, or perhaps additional animations. Thanks for your help. Dave


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PostPosted: August 16th, 2006, 3:14 pm 
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A month later and the site appears the same. Several issues I'd like to see addressed are the benefits of electrofusion over butt fusion. I'm not a rocket scientist, but it sure appears that electrofusion is a lot cheaper, easier and much more goof proof than your complicated and uncontrolled butt fusion procedured. I see your Data Loggers as an admission that the butt process is fundamentally fraught with errors and difficult to control.
Secondly, as a European customer, I'd like to see a FAQ or other document that clearly states your status as being a validly CE marked eqwuipment or your certification as an ISO 9001 manufacturer. Since I see no reference to either, I assume you are deficient on both accounts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 16th, 2006, 3:14 pm 
Thanks for your feedback on our web site. Let me try and address some of your concerns.

Regarding your comment “A month later and the site appears the same.” We are actively working on our web site redesign. Continue to check back, within the next few weeks you’ll see some wonderful changes. Quality takes time. We have been busy with additional content creation as well as a new look and feel.

As for your request for more information concerning “…the benefits of electrofusion over butt fusion,” I respectfully submit the following. Butt fusion and electrofusion are both quality processes, each of which has its place in the industry. Both processes require steps to achieve a quality joint. For example, a typical electrofusion joint requires the following steps:

Electrofusion
1. Obtain the correct electrofusion fitting for the type and size of pipe to be joined.
2. Cut the pipe square, and perpendicular, then remove the burrs.
3. Wipe any loose dirt from the ends of the pipe.
4. Mark each end on the pipe to be joined for proper socket depth.
5. Prepare the marked area at the ends of the pipe to remove the outer skin. This prevents joint contamination.
6. Remove the fitting from the protective package and check to make sure it is dry and clean.
7. Clean the scraped area of the pipe with a special solvent wipe.
8. Insert the pipe ends completely to the center stop. Mark the pipe ends again to show complete insertion depth.
9. Install the fitting and pipe ends into a specially designed set of clamps to prevent the pipe and fitting from moving and to insure that they are properly aligned. When using coiled pipe, a special set of rerounding clamps is required.
10. Remove the covers that protect the terminals.
11. Connect the electrofusion control box leads to the fitting terminals.
12. Follow the manufacturers recommended procedure for the electrofusion control box, being sure to follow the correct fusion time, cool time, and input voltage.
13. Leave the joint in the clamps for the proper cooling time.
14. Unclamp the pipe and move the equipment to the next joint.

The typical butt fusion joint requires the following steps:

Butt Fusion
1. Clamp the pipe ends into the butt fusion machine. No special cut or deburr is required.
2. Wipe any dirt from the ends of the pipe.
3. Insert the facer into the machine and face the pipe ends to establish clean, parallel mating surfaces perpendicular to the centerline of the pipes. The butt fusion machine’s facer will quickly accomplish this task.
4. Align the pipe ends to minimize mismatch or high-low of the pipe walls by adjusting the clamps.
5. Insert the clean heater into the machine.
6. Heat the ends of the pipe to establish a melt pattern that penetrates into both pipe ends. The pipe manufacturer, area regulations, or company policy establishes the temperature, time, and pressure required.
7. Remove the heater.
8. Using the butt fusion machine, quickly bring the ends of the pipe together with the specified force.
9. Allow the fusion machine to hold the force as required until the joint has properly cooled.
10. Unclamp the pipe and pull the pipe through the machine to the next joint or, in the case of the TracStar, drive the machine to the next joint.

As you can see, both require steps to achieve a quality joint. Both processes require quality equipment. Both processes require a trained operator. Each has its unique advantages and disadvantages.

Lets address your comment - “it sure appears that electrofusion is a lot cheaper, easier and much more goof proof than your complicated and uncontrolled butt fusion procedure.” Nothing could be farther from the truth. Electrofusion requires the purchase of a fitting for each joint and equipment to properly join the pipe. These are precision fittings and each contain their own internal heater. Butt fusion requires equipment but no fitting. Without the need for a fitting, the butt fusion machine can quickly pay for itself in fitting savings.

It is a common myth that electrofusion is easier. As you can see from the steps above, both processes involve several required steps. If any of the steps are “goofed” you can end up with problems.

As for control, each process can have any level of control you desire. You can purchase a manual electrofusion box, or you can buy one with automatic controls. The same is true of butt fusion equipment. It is important to note that the controls cannot do the job for you. Many think that an automatic control will somehow prevent “goofs.” Keep in mind that the control is only a small part of the whole process. The operator must be trained, no matter what type of equipment they are using. In fact, automatic controls can lead the operator into a false sense of security. They tend to be a little less observant of alignment, dirt, pipe preparation, and condition of the equipment. These items are not automatically controlled by either system. Yet, they can be the biggest concern with regards to joint quality. The portion of the process that is controlled can be the most forgiving. They tend to think that because the equipment is automatic they don’t have to pay close attention and often leave the equipment unattended.

Now lets address your comment – “I see your Data Loggers as an admission that the butt process is fundamentally fraught with errors and difficult to control.” The process is actually very easy to control. Quality butt fusion joints have been installed for the past 30 years. The vast majority of the joints have been made on manual equipment and purely visual operator feedback. The process is very easy to follow and quite forgiving. The DataLogger is simply a quality documenting instrument that bridges the gap between an automated machine, with this feature built-in, and a manual machine. It provides a record of the time temperature and pressure. Automated electrofusion control boxes have this feature built in as well. Many company quality control programs require documentation. This instrument can provide such documentation. The simple need to document a procedure does not make the procedure “fundamentally fraught with errors and difficult to control.”

The previous topic provides an excellent segue into your final questions – documentation of quality. You have asked about our CE mark on our products and our status as an ISO 9001 manufacturer. We produce products that meet the required directives to be CE marked for sale in Europe. We also have an excellent quality assurance program at McElroy Manufacturing, Inc. We do not currently have ISO 9001 certification. This is however, an ongoing program.

I hope this has answered your questions. Thanks again for your comments. I would be very interested in seeing your company’s web site and providing feedback for you as well. But I see that you are unregistered with this discussion forum.

Be sure to check with our UK office for more information. You will find the contact information at http://www.mcelroymfg.com/fusion/contact/contact.htm

Another source in the UK for our equipment is MCA Hire Services at www.mcahire.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: August 16th, 2006, 3:15 pm 
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Joined: August 16th, 2006, 2:47 pm
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The website hath been updated.


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